Video crashes? P4-800

[Roadrunner NG]

I have a problem that manifests as follows.

You see lines through the video images especially when there is motion. The
lines are like streaks. In 3d operations you see kind of 1/4" square images
flickering throughout the video screen. When it gets bad the system reboots
or the operation crashes and I get a Windows error report. I have switched
video cards and get just a system crash once in a while without the video
image flicker problems. At first I had suspected a Video card issue, but
when I switched to a Radeon 1950 512Mb pro it ran O'K for a while and then
had just video lock up and crashes/restarts. If I re-seat the video card,
sometimes it works fine, but then deteriorates later.

Are there any suggestions on what might be causing this video failure,
restarts? Memory, processor, video socket, hard drive? I don't really know
what would cause video isssues other than the video card.

This is a 3 year old system that has been rock solid until now.

Asus P4-800 MB, P4 3GHz, 1Gig RAM Corsair (2x 512mb ), Radeon 9800 8X AGP
Video Card. Antec SmartBlue 350w PS & case. PC fan, 2 internal fans front &
back, both cleaned regularily.

Appreicate any advice, Reb

[RobV]

Post by Roadrunner NG
I have a problem that manifests as follows.
You see lines through the video images especially when there is
motion. The lines are like streaks. In 3d operations you see kind of
1/4" square images flickering throughout the video screen. When it
gets bad the system reboots or the operation crashes and I get a
Windows error report. I have switched video cards and get just a
system crash once in a while without the video image flicker
problems. At first I had suspected a Video card issue, but when I
switched to a Radeon 1950 512Mb pro it ran O'K for a while and then
had just video lock up and crashes/restarts. If I re-seat the video
card, sometimes it works fine, but then deteriorates later.
Are there any suggestions on what might be causing this video failure,
restarts? Memory, processor, video socket, hard drive? I don't
really know what would cause video isssues other than the video card.
This is a 3 year old system that has been rock solid until now.
Asus P4-800 MB, P4 3GHz, 1Gig RAM Corsair (2x 512mb ), Radeon 9800
8X AGP Video Card. Antec SmartBlue 350w PS & case. PC fan, 2 internal
fans front & back, both cleaned regularily.
Appreicate any advice, Reb

Sounds very much like a heat problem. Have you checked the case and CPU
temps? Cleaned the dust out of the heatsink and other fans and the
boards? What kind of airflow (fans) does the case have?

It could also be the power supply going bad.

[Roadrunner NG]

I checked the CPU Fan/heatsink, there was some dust, but not an overwhelming
amount. The Themal grease looked a little dried out but somewhat gooey. I
cleaned the heatsink/fan and put fresh thermal grease on and still problems.
Even when I scroll in this NG I get a bluring that stays in the form of
streaks. Would a PS cause this kind of issue? I am trying to decid whether
or not to build a new PC or try and fix this one that meet all my needs even
though it's 3 years old. Would a cooked processor act like this and affect
Video? I hate to shotgun without logic but .............

Reb

Post by RobV

Post by Roadrunner NG
I have a problem that manifests as follows.
You see lines through the video images especially when there is
motion. The lines are like streaks. In 3d operations you see kind of
1/4" square images flickering throughout the video screen. When it
gets bad the system reboots or the operation crashes and I get a
Windows error report. I have switched video cards and get just a
system crash once in a while without the video image flicker
problems. At first I had suspected a Video card issue, but when I
switched to a Radeon 1950 512Mb pro it ran O'K for a while and then
had just video lock up and crashes/restarts. If I re-seat the video
card, sometimes it works fine, but then deteriorates later.
Are there any suggestions on what might be causing this video failure,
restarts? Memory, processor, video socket, hard drive? I don't
really know what would cause video isssues other than the video card.
This is a 3 year old system that has been rock solid until now.
Asus P4-800 MB, P4 3GHz, 1Gig RAM Corsair (2x 512mb ), Radeon 9800
8X AGP Video Card. Antec SmartBlue 350w PS & case. PC fan, 2 internal
fans front & back, both cleaned regularily.
Appreicate any advice, Reb

Sounds very much like a heat problem. Have you checked the case and CPU
temps? Cleaned the dust out of the heatsink and other fans and the
boards? What kind of airflow (fans) does the case have?
It could also be the power supply going bad.

[RobV]

Post by Roadrunner NG
I checked the CPU Fan/heatsink, there was some dust, but not an
overwhelming amount. The Themal grease looked a little dried out but
somewhat gooey. I cleaned the heatsink/fan and put fresh thermal
grease on and still problems. Even when I scroll in this NG I get a
bluring that stays in the form of streaks. Would a PS cause this kind
of issue? I am trying to decid whether or not to build a new PC or
try and fix this one that meet all my needs even though it's 3 years
old. Would a cooked processor act like this and affect Video? I hate
to shotgun without logic but .............
Reb

[snip]

No, a problem with the CPU would cause the system to crash. It still
sounds like a video card problem, just as you correctly suspected at
first. But, since you've tried multiple video cards, that rules that
out (unless all the video cards are bad ;-)).

I take it you can rule out heat buildup?

There are three things I can think of that might be causing you
problems. First, the video card slot itself. Are you sure it's clean,
nothing inside near any of the socket pins. Maybe give a blast of
canned air into it.

A power supply that's going bad, but that is very rare; usually, they
just die. If you can, though, try another power supply.

The third reason may be a bad capacitor(s) on the MB. Over time,
electrolytic caps can go bad. A defective one would have a bulge in the
middle and/or top of the "can". Also, there may be no physical
deformity, but you may see a light brown substance on the top and/or
bottom of the cap. This would also indicate a defective cap that is
leaking the electrolyte. What happens is, as it/they deteriorate, the
voltage regulation (their purpose on the board) decreases and strange
symptoms can show up, just as you are experiencing. Look closely at all
the electrolytic (can type) caps near and around the CPU and there may
be one or two very near the graphics card slot.
If you see anything close to what I explained, that would be the
problem. I have a link for pictures of bad caps, but when I use it, the
page simply says "Gone". It is from a few years back, so no surprise
there.

One more thing to try. Run a test on your memory. You can D/L
Memtest86+ and run it to see if you have any bad memory. It's possible,
but not likely that there are one or a few bad memory chips.
http://www.memtest.org/

[news-server.wi.rr.com]

Rob,

Thanks so much for your advice. I will try the MemTest and report back. The
graphics are getting really messed up so I hope I can get that far. I am
running on my notebook now. The machine is actually shutting down and
resetting. I will also look for defective Caps and check the
AGP socket and report back.

Reb

Post by RobV

Post by Roadrunner NG
I checked the CPU Fan/heatsink, there was some dust, but not an
overwhelming amount. The Themal grease looked a little dried out but
somewhat gooey. I cleaned the heatsink/fan and put fresh thermal
grease on and still problems. Even when I scroll in this NG I get a
bluring that stays in the form of streaks. Would a PS cause this kind
of issue? I am trying to decid whether or not to build a new PC or
try and fix this one that meet all my needs even though it's 3 years
old. Would a cooked processor act like this and affect Video? I hate
to shotgun without logic but .............
Reb

[snip]
No, a problem with the CPU would cause the system to crash. It still
sounds like a video card problem, just as you correctly suspected at
first. But, since you've tried multiple video cards, that rules that out
(unless all the video cards are bad ;-)).
I take it you can rule out heat buildup?
There are three things I can think of that might be causing you problems.
First, the video card slot itself. Are you sure it's clean, nothing
inside near any of the socket pins. Maybe give a blast of canned air into
it.
A power supply that's going bad, but that is very rare; usually, they just
die. If you can, though, try another power supply.
The third reason may be a bad capacitor(s) on the MB. Over time,
electrolytic caps can go bad. A defective one would have a bulge in the
middle and/or top of the "can". Also, there may be no physical deformity,
but you may see a light brown substance on the top and/or bottom of the
cap. This would also indicate a defective cap that is leaking the
electrolyte. What happens is, as it/they deteriorate, the voltage
regulation (their purpose on the board) decreases and strange symptoms can
show up, just as you are experiencing. Look closely at all the
electrolytic (can type) caps near and around the CPU and there may be one
or two very near the graphics card slot.
If you see anything close to what I explained, that would be the problem.
I have a link for pictures of bad caps, but when I use it, the page simply
says "Gone". It is from a few years back, so no surprise there.
One more thing to try. Run a test on your memory. You can D/L Memtest86+
and run it to see if you have any bad memory. It's possible, but not
likely that there are one or a few bad memory chips.
http://www.memtest.org/

[Roadrunner NG]

RobV,

Here's where the P4-800 is at right now. I checked for leaky/distorted Caps,
no problems found, all looked clean & fresh, no distortion or discoloration.
I ran MemTest for 2 cycles, no errors.

I did notice 2 loose connections to my SATA Cdrive. the power and the SATA
cable were at a slight angle. The power connector being the worst. I
replugged those and I have not noticed the problem yet. I have had
intermittent times where the problem dissapears. However, I have run for 2
hours straight without any issues. Also, when I was thinking it was a AGP
video card problem, I was wiggling the card and sometimes it seemed to work
but went back to the flaky video. I may have been just bumping the loose
SATA drive cables.

Is it possible a intermittent connection to a SATA drive could cause video
and resetting issues? Even plugged in all the way, these cables don't lock
very securely so next shutdown I will re-route them for a less risky pull
out position.

Reb

Post by RobV

Post by Roadrunner NG
I checked the CPU Fan/heatsink, there was some dust, but not an
overwhelming amount. The Themal grease looked a little dried out but
somewhat gooey. I cleaned the heatsink/fan and put fresh thermal
grease on and still problems. Even when I scroll in this NG I get a
bluring that stays in the form of streaks. Would a PS cause this kind
of issue? I am trying to decid whether or not to build a new PC or
try and fix this one that meet all my needs even though it's 3 years
old. Would a cooked processor act like this and affect Video? I hate
to shotgun without logic but .............
Reb

[snip]
No, a problem with the CPU would cause the system to crash. It still
sounds like a video card problem, just as you correctly suspected at
first. But, since you've tried multiple video cards, that rules that out
(unless all the video cards are bad ;-)).
I take it you can rule out heat buildup?
There are three things I can think of that might be causing you problems.
First, the video card slot itself. Are you sure it's clean, nothing
inside near any of the socket pins. Maybe give a blast of canned air into
it.
A power supply that's going bad, but that is very rare; usually, they just
die. If you can, though, try another power supply.
The third reason may be a bad capacitor(s) on the MB. Over time,
electrolytic caps can go bad. A defective one would have a bulge in the
middle and/or top of the "can". Also, there may be no physical deformity,
but you may see a light brown substance on the top and/or bottom of the
cap. This would also indicate a defective cap that is leaking the
electrolyte. What happens is, as it/they deteriorate, the voltage
regulation (their purpose on the board) decreases and strange symptoms can
show up, just as you are experiencing. Look closely at all the
electrolytic (can type) caps near and around the CPU and there may be one
or two very near the graphics card slot.
If you see anything close to what I explained, that would be the problem.
I have a link for pictures of bad caps, but when I use it, the page simply
says "Gone". It is from a few years back, so no surprise there.
One more thing to try. Run a test on your memory. You can D/L Memtest86+
and run it to see if you have any bad memory. It's possible, but not
likely that there are one or a few bad memory chips.
http://www.memtest.org/

[RobV]

Post by Roadrunner NG
RobV,
Here's where the P4-800 is at right now. I checked for
leaky/distorted Caps, no problems found, all looked clean & fresh, no
distortion or discoloration. I ran MemTest for 2 cycles, no errors.
I did notice 2 loose connections to my SATA Cdrive. the power and the
SATA cable were at a slight angle. The power connector being the
worst. I replugged those and I have not noticed the problem yet. I
have had intermittent times where the problem dissapears. However, I
have run for 2 hours straight without any issues. Also, when I was
thinking it was a AGP video card problem, I was wiggling the card and
sometimes it seemed to work but went back to the flaky video. I may
have been just bumping the loose SATA drive cables.
Is it possible a intermittent connection to a SATA drive could cause
video and resetting issues? Even plugged in all the way, these cables
don't lock very securely so next shutdown I will re-route them for a
less risky pull out position.
Reb

[snip]

I have read in posts from many news groups that SATA power and data
cables, especially, don't seat securely and that problems have been
caused by intermittent contact.

I have a SATA disk drive and a SATA DVD drive in my system and was aware
of this problem. However, the cables and power connectors I have fit
very well...there's a bit of a snap as the cable seats and locks into
the socket.

It's very possible that loose SATA cables could have caused your
problem. The best thing to do is just what you said: pull the cables
and reroute and reseat them, both on the MB and at the drive. Try
pushing straight on and listen for a snap, then pull gently on the cable
to see if it's seated well. If you can't get that to happen, or
rerouting doesn't work, try another SATA cables(s). Your nearest Radio
Shack should sell them.

Hopefully, it's as simple as that. Thanks for the update!

[Roadrunner NG]

Here's the day 2 report.

Last night I fired up the PC after 3-4 hours continued use without issue and
a then shut it down for dinner. I put the side cover on the case (aluminum
Antec LanBoy). When I started it up, again I had video image issues. If I
wiggled the power cable to the C Sata Drive it stopped but then came back.
Today, same problem. No restarts, just streaks running through the video. I
then swapped the SATA and power cables from my storage drive and cleaned up
the dust (minor) arount the connection points. The Drives had quite a bit of
dust on the bottom card below the connectors, cleaned that off also. With
the connectors swapped between the 2 drives, I have no problems with 3 hours
of run time and a couple intentional shutdowns and restarts.

Anyway, looks like a cable issue. I was using the stock Asus SATA cables for
drive & power. Looks like I need to look for some new cables. They fit very
loosly and don't lock in (no click). One bump or vibration over time and I'm
sure it can cause problems again.

Reb

Post by RobV

Post by Roadrunner NG
RobV,
Here's where the P4-800 is at right now. I checked for
leaky/distorted Caps, no problems found, all looked clean & fresh, no
distortion or discoloration. I ran MemTest for 2 cycles, no errors.
I did notice 2 loose connections to my SATA Cdrive. the power and the
SATA cable were at a slight angle. The power connector being the
worst. I replugged those and I have not noticed the problem yet. I
have had intermittent times where the problem dissapears. However, I
have run for 2 hours straight without any issues. Also, when I was
thinking it was a AGP video card problem, I was wiggling the card and
sometimes it seemed to work but went back to the flaky video. I may
have been just bumping the loose SATA drive cables.
Is it possible a intermittent connection to a SATA drive could cause
video and resetting issues? Even plugged in all the way, these cables
don't lock very securely so next shutdown I will re-route them for a
less risky pull out position.
Reb

[snip]
I have read in posts from many news groups that SATA power and data
cables, especially, don't seat securely and that problems have been caused
by intermittent contact.
I have a SATA disk drive and a SATA DVD drive in my system and was aware
of this problem. However, the cables and power connectors I have fit very
well...there's a bit of a snap as the cable seats and locks into the
socket.
It's very possible that loose SATA cables could have caused your problem.
The best thing to do is just what you said: pull the cables and reroute
and reseat them, both on the MB and at the drive. Try pushing straight on
and listen for a snap, then pull gently on the cable to see if it's seated
well. If you can't get that to happen, or rerouting doesn't work, try
another SATA cables(s). Your nearest Radio Shack should sell them.
Hopefully, it's as simple as that. Thanks for the update!

[RobV]

Post by Roadrunner NG
Here's the day 2 report.
Last night I fired up the PC after 3-4 hours continued use without
issue and a then shut it down for dinner. I put the side cover on the
case (aluminum Antec LanBoy). When I started it up, again I had video
image issues. If I wiggled the power cable to the C Sata Drive it
stopped but then came back. Today, same problem. No restarts, just
streaks running through the video. I then swapped the SATA and power
cables from my storage drive and cleaned up the dust (minor) arount
the connection points. The Drives had quite a bit of dust on the
bottom card below the connectors, cleaned that off also. With the
connectors swapped between the 2 drives, I have no problems with 3
hours of run time and a couple intentional shutdowns and restarts.
Anyway, looks like a cable issue. I was using the stock Asus SATA
cables for drive & power. Looks like I need to look for some new
cables. They fit very loosly and don't lock in (no click). One bump
or vibration over time and I'm sure it can cause problems again.
Reb

[snip]

Yes, it does indeed sound like a SATA cable problem. As I mentioned, a
lot of people have the same problems as you with SATA cables fitting
loosely. The cables I have do snap into place, so good SATA cables do
exist. One was the cable supplied by Asus with the MB and the other was
one I've had around for years from another computer build.

I can't recommend any particular manufacturer though, because the only
SATA cables I'm using are fine and were supplied by the manufacturer.

Try Newegg.com. They have a number of SATA cables, all are inexpensive.
This page will give you a good start.

http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=1&name=Cables

[Roadrunner NG]

Well, after several days of thinking the problem was fixed with cables being
switched and checked the video problems started re-ocurring. bluring and
restarts and total image blackout. I had switched an old Nvidia Ti-4200 AGP
in which does not even have a power connector on it (low power consumption).
I just recieved a new Seasonic S12 550 power supply today and put that in.
No problems so far. I am going to try my AGP ATI 9800 again which consumes
way more power and see if the video issue is gone with that card too. At
this point it seems like power supply was the culprit. I can jiggle the
cables all day with now video issues. Somehow jiggling the cables with the
old Antec TrueBlue 350 watt PS could alter the problem and sometimes correct
it.

Reb

Post by RobV

Post by Roadrunner NG
Here's the day 2 report.
Last night I fired up the PC after 3-4 hours continued use without
issue and a then shut it down for dinner. I put the side cover on the
case (aluminum Antec LanBoy). When I started it up, again I had video
image issues. If I wiggled the power cable to the C Sata Drive it
stopped but then came back. Today, same problem. No restarts, just
streaks running through the video. I then swapped the SATA and power
cables from my storage drive and cleaned up the dust (minor) arount
the connection points. The Drives had quite a bit of dust on the
bottom card below the connectors, cleaned that off also. With the
connectors swapped between the 2 drives, I have no problems with 3
hours of run time and a couple intentional shutdowns and restarts.
Anyway, looks like a cable issue. I was using the stock Asus SATA
cables for drive & power. Looks like I need to look for some new
cables. They fit very loosly and don't lock in (no click). One bump
or vibration over time and I'm sure it can cause problems again.
Reb

[snip]
Yes, it does indeed sound like a SATA cable problem. As I mentioned, a
lot of people have the same problems as you with SATA cables fitting
loosely. The cables I have do snap into place, so good SATA cables do
exist. One was the cable supplied by Asus with the MB and the other was
one I've had around for years from another computer build.
I can't recommend any particular manufacturer though, because the only
SATA cables I'm using are fine and were supplied by the manufacturer.
Try Newegg.com. They have a number of SATA cables, all are inexpensive.
This page will give you a good start.
http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=1&name=Cables

[RobV]

Post by Roadrunner NG
Well, after several days of thinking the problem was fixed with
cables being switched and checked the video problems started
re-ocurring. bluring and restarts and total image blackout. I had
switched an old Nvidia Ti-4200 AGP in which does not even have a
power connector on it (low power consumption). I just recieved a new
Seasonic S12 550 power supply today and put that in. No problems so
far. I am going to try my AGP ATI 9800 again which consumes way more
power and see if the video issue is gone with that card too. At this
point it seems like power supply was the culprit. I can jiggle the
cables all day with now video issues. Somehow jiggling the cables
with the old Antec TrueBlue 350 watt PS could alter the problem and
sometimes correct it.
Reb

[snip]

Well, thanks for the update. Very good choice of PSU, BTW. Years ago,
Antec were the best, but their quality has gone down. From much reading
in NGs, Seasonic are the new high quality, reasonably priced PSU.

[Roadrunner NG]

Rob,

Talked to some of the Electrical Equipt. techs at work and they said that
the problem I was having sounded very much like a PS problem. I was hesitant
to go there thinking the previous PSs that I had just plain died and
unlikely they would affect video, although the syst restarts were a signal.
They said they had seen more than a few on PCs go intermittent due to leaky
caps. I know you had suggested the PS, and I was going up the cost/process
of elimination ladder and finally got to the $ on the PS. I had thought the
Antec was a high end PS but it is a MTB 50k VS the Seasonic 100k hrs. Sad to
see Antec on its way down and in my PC too. Anyway, the system is back
still rock solid with the SeasonicPS, and still more PC than I need. I'm
really comfortable with the Seasonic, quiet, efficient, history of
reliability, not too cheap though, but you ceratainly could spend as much or
more and get less. I may disect the old PS if I get a chance to see if there
is any evidence of a leaky cap, or???

Reb

Post by RobV

Post by Roadrunner NG
Well, after several days of thinking the problem was fixed with
cables being switched and checked the video problems started
re-ocurring. bluring and restarts and total image blackout. I had
switched an old Nvidia Ti-4200 AGP in which does not even have a
power connector on it (low power consumption). I just recieved a new
Seasonic S12 550 power supply today and put that in. No problems so
far. I am going to try my AGP ATI 9800 again which consumes way more
power and see if the video issue is gone with that card too. At this
point it seems like power supply was the culprit. I can jiggle the
cables all day with now video issues. Somehow jiggling the cables
with the old Antec TrueBlue 350 watt PS could alter the problem and
sometimes correct it.
Reb

[snip]
Well, thanks for the update. Very good choice of PSU, BTW. Years ago,
Antec were the best, but their quality has gone down. From much reading
in NGs, Seasonic are the new high quality, reasonably priced PSU.

[RobV]

Post by Roadrunner NG
Rob,
Talked to some of the Electrical Equipt. techs at work and they said
that the problem I was having sounded very much like a PS problem. I
was hesitant to go there thinking the previous PSs that I had just
plain died and unlikely they would affect video, although the syst
restarts were a signal. They said they had seen more than a few on
PCs go intermittent due to leaky caps. I know you had suggested the
PS, and I was going up the cost/process of elimination ladder and
finally got to the $ on the PS. I had thought the Antec was a high
end PS but it is a MTB 50k VS the Seasonic 100k hrs. Sad to see Antec
on its way down and in my PC too. Anyway, the system is back still
rock solid with the SeasonicPS, and still more PC than I need. I'm
really comfortable with the Seasonic, quiet, efficient, history of
reliability, not too cheap though, but you ceratainly could spend as
much or more and get less. I may disect the old PS if I get a chance
to see if there is any evidence of a leaky cap, or???
Reb

Great! Sounds like you nailed it. You may or may not actually see
anything look bad in the PSU. If cap(s) are leaking, you'll know it.
You'll see a caramel colored sludge that usually covers the top of a bad
cap. However, you may see it on the bottom, side, or not at all. The
other thing to look for is a cap that is bulging in any way. Maybe a
little too fat, or the top pushing up.

One word of caution. These PSUs are switching mode, meaning it uses
large capacity caps that can hold a charge for a very long time (up to
24 hours). That, combined with the high inductance coils inside make
the PSU very dangerous. It can KILL you, even many hours after being
disconnected. I've never heard of anyone ever being hurt, let alone
killed, by opening a PSU, but you should be aware of the hazard.

Just let it sit for a couple days, then open it and you'll be safe. Let
me know if you see anything obvious (like the caps, or something that
looks and/or smells burnt).

Again, congrats on fixing the problem and selecting a very good quality
PSU to do so.

[Roadrunner NG]

Well, the garbage collectors beat me to the PS, so dissection is now only
something I wish I had done. Thanks for the ZAP warning. For an update, I
can say that my system has run flawlessly now for 5 days with the new PS. I
checked my receipts which date the Antec 350 TrueBlue that failed was 4.5
years old. I suppose that isn't too bad, but I would expect a top quality PS
to not fail before I trash the system, but odds are that some of the best
PSs will fail over time. However, after this experience I did/will not
consider Antec. The Seasonic 550, if it lives up to it's reputation, should
be capable for my next mobo/dual core processor/DDR3/PCIE upgrade in 1-2
years.

I also bought some of the clip type SATA cables with a 90 degree on one end
(should help them not pull out of the drive). They clip into the drives
nicely and won't pull out easily (as the non-clip type did). The only
problem I found with the clip connectors is that the mobo SATA cable end
does not clip to the socket even though that end has clips too. I saw
some,many for sale that only had clips on one end and wonder if the mobo
sockets commonly don't accommodate the clips so the manufacturer left them
off. Too bad they don't clip on the Asus P4-800. I can't believe that the
SATA cable technology was so poorly thought out as to allow the cables to
not clip in on the original designs? Obviously an 40-80 pin connector has
enough resistance to hold the connector in the socket, but the 7 pins on
SATA cables hardly offer any contact friction. Oh well, enough of my
ranting, at least the drive end of the SATA cables are more secure now on my
system. Hopefully the new mobos accommodate the clip design.

Thanks for all the help on this adventure.

Reb

Post by RobV

Post by Roadrunner NG
Rob,
Talked to some of the Electrical Equipt. techs at work and they said
that the problem I was having sounded very much like a PS problem. I
was hesitant to go there thinking the previous PSs that I had just
plain died and unlikely they would affect video, although the syst
restarts were a signal. They said they had seen more than a few on
PCs go intermittent due to leaky caps. I know you had suggested the
PS, and I was going up the cost/process of elimination ladder and
finally got to the $ on the PS. I had thought the Antec was a high
end PS but it is a MTB 50k VS the Seasonic 100k hrs. Sad to see Antec
on its way down and in my PC too. Anyway, the system is back still
rock solid with the SeasonicPS, and still more PC than I need. I'm
really comfortable with the Seasonic, quiet, efficient, history of
reliability, not too cheap though, but you ceratainly could spend as
much or more and get less. I may disect the old PS if I get a chance
to see if there is any evidence of a leaky cap, or???
Reb

Great! Sounds like you nailed it. You may or may not actually see
anything look bad in the PSU. If cap(s) are leaking, you'll know it.
You'll see a caramel colored sludge that usually covers the top of a bad
cap. However, you may see it on the bottom, side, or not at all. The
other thing to look for is a cap that is bulging in any way. Maybe a
little too fat, or the top pushing up.
One word of caution. These PSUs are switching mode, meaning it uses large
capacity caps that can hold a charge for a very long time (up to 24
hours). That, combined with the high inductance coils inside make the PSU
very dangerous. It can KILL you, even many hours after being
disconnected. I've never heard of anyone ever being hurt, let alone
killed, by opening a PSU, but you should be aware of the hazard.
Just let it sit for a couple days, then open it and you'll be safe. Let
me know if you see anything obvious (like the caps, or something that
looks and/or smells burnt).
Again, congrats on fixing the problem and selecting a very good quality
PSU to do so.

[RobV]

Post by Roadrunner NG
Well, the garbage collectors beat me to the PS, so dissection is now
only something I wish I had done. Thanks for the ZAP warning. For an
update, I can say that my system has run flawlessly now for 5 days
with the new PS. I checked my receipts which date the Antec 350
TrueBlue that failed was 4.5 years old. I suppose that isn't too bad,
but I would expect a top quality PS to not fail before I trash the
system, but odds are that some of the best PSs will fail over time.
However, after this experience I did/will not consider Antec. The
Seasonic 550, if it lives up to it's reputation, should be capable
for my next mobo/dual core processor/DDR3/PCIE upgrade in 1-2 years.

The Seasonic 550 should be more than adequate. I'm running a E6600 at 3
GHz, 2 GB ram, three hard drives and DVD combo unit from a 450 watt PSU
supplied with the case (Antec; what can I say, it was a good deal).

The point is that, after the 100th, or more, power outage over the past
few years, mostly for a second or two, I finally got a UPS
(Uninteruptable Power Supply). It has some nice software, one of the
readouts being the wattage actually being used by what is plugged into
it.

With the computer, a 6 year old 19 inch tube monitor, wireless mouse,
and the cable modem plugged into the battery output, the wattage used is
174 watts. If the CPU and all other hardware ran at full load, I'm sure
it would jump to nearly 200 watts! You have lots of room to grow.

Post by Roadrunner NG
I also bought some of the clip type SATA cables with a 90 degree on
one end (should help them not pull out of the drive). They clip into
the drives nicely and won't pull out easily (as the non-clip type
did). The only problem I found with the clip connectors is that the
mobo SATA cable end does not clip to the socket even though that end
has clips too. I saw some,many for sale that only had clips on one
end and wonder if the mobo sockets commonly don't accommodate the
clips so the manufacturer left them off. Too bad they don't clip on
the Asus P4-800. I can't believe that the SATA cable technology was
so poorly thought out as to allow the cables to not clip in on the
original designs? Obviously an 40-80 pin connector has enough
resistance to hold the connector in the socket, but the 7 pins on
SATA cables hardly offer any contact friction. Oh well, enough of my
ranting, at least the drive end of the SATA cables are more secure
now on my system. Hopefully the new mobos accommodate the clip
design.
Thanks for all the help on this adventure.
Reb

I'm glad that you got it all running smoothly. Just look at all the
valuable experience you gained from working on the problem. I was happy
to help, and am glad that between the two of us, everything is now cool.
< g >

Now, enjoy your system!

[sherwindu]

Post by Roadrunner NG
I have a problem that manifests as follows.
You see lines through the video images especially when there is motion. The
lines are like streaks. In 3d operations you see kind of 1/4" square images
flickering throughout the video screen. When it gets bad the system reboots
or the operation crashes and I get a Windows error report. I have switched
video cards and get just a system crash once in a while without the video
image flicker problems. At first I had suspected a Video card issue, but
when I switched to a Radeon 1950 512Mb pro it ran O'K for a while and then
had just video lock up and crashes/restarts. If I re-seat the video card,
sometimes it works fine, but then deteriorates later.
Are there any suggestions on what might be causing this video failure,
restarts? Memory, processor, video socket, hard drive? I don't really know
what would cause video isssues other than the video card.
This is a 3 year old system that has been rock solid until now.
Asus P4-800 MB, P4 3GHz, 1Gig RAM Corsair (2x 512mb ), Radeon 9800 8X AGP
Video Card. Antec SmartBlue 350w PS & case. PC fan, 2 internal fans front &
back, both cleaned regularily.
Appreicate any advice, Reb

From the thread of this message, sounds like the culprit was the power
supply.

I am seeing similar problems on my Asus A7M266 based system. In my case,
the
video is jerky, more so with the streaming video than video off the hard
drive. I have
checked all the obvious things including a visit by Comcast who said my
input stream
looked good. This could be a problem with hardware and I checked for the
bad
capacitors and loose cables, as suggested. Temperature could be a factor,
although
all 3 of my fans seem to be operating fine, including the cpu fan. I get
some unexpected
restarts when trying to force displays of video on download bars to advance
positions.
Also, the PC itself seems slow to respond even though I have cleaned
cookies, defragged
it, and all the other software clean up tools, including anti-virus. Wonder
if my problem
is related to yours?

Running SpeedFan program indicates that my Core voltages are measuring
low.
+5V is showing 3.21 and +12V is reading 8.87. The other voltages appear
to
be within 5%.

Sherwin